Dank n Edgy

The dorkest, edgist forums known to puny hoomans

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Welcome to DnE, the online psych facility. (Run by the inmates, for the inmates.)

#1 2012-06-29 05:50:08

Blobthe15
Member
Registered: 2012-06-10
Posts: 67

"OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Offline

#2 2012-06-29 07:33:56

HeartofShadows
What do you know of... Cthulhu?
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 505

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

This guys comment sums it up.

““where will the financing for Obamacare come from?”

Not one word has been written asking, “where will destitute Americans (the millions of homeless, jobless) get the money to buy mandated medical insurance when they cannot even feed themselves and their families? When they have no home to live in?”

Waiting to see the eventual shitstorm.


"I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit."

Mark Twain

Offline

#3 2012-06-29 07:39:25

gore
*looses shit internally*
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 6,235

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

HeartofShadows wrote:

This guys comment sums it up.

““where will the financing for Obamacare come from?”

Not one word has been written asking, “where will destitute Americans (the millions of homeless, jobless) get the money to buy mandated medical insurance when they cannot even feed themselves and their families? When they have no home to live in?”

Waiting to see the eventual shitstorm.

BUT GUISE HERP DERP ITS TO HELP THE P00R U DONT CARE ABOUT P00R U M33N REPUBLICAN!!!!.


366.gif
my youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmcMLs … CNoiL7eX1g
my deviantart: http://purpledrank666.deviantart.com/

SS official oldfaf.
fuck SS
"A friend with weed is a friend indeed" -Sharpie

"Honestly censorship Is good though it protects women and children" -Absent

"Not everybody think the free market be like it does, but it do." -white economics man

Offline

#4 2012-06-29 07:44:56

HeartofShadows
What do you know of... Cthulhu?
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 505

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

How Much Is the Obamacare ‘Tax’?


Q: How much will the “tax” penalty be for going without health insurance?

A: The minimum assessment will be $695 per person (but no more than $2,085 per family) in 2016, when fully phased in. The amount can be higher depending on income. But there are exemptions for low-income persons and others.

FULL QUESTION

For once, we’re asking this question of ourselves, knowing that our readers will be curious about it now that the Supreme Court has upheld the key portions of the Affordable Care Act. We’ll also ask and answer these questions:

    Is it a tax or a penalty?
    If I choose to go without health coverage, how much will I have to pay?
    Who will collect it?
    What if I am covered for only part of the year?
    What if I refuse to pay?
    Are there exemptions?
    How many people will pay?

FULL ANSWER

Let’s take those questions in order.

Is It a Tax or a Penalty?

We will be using the terms interchangeably from now on. Whatever you call it, it’s the functional equivalent of a tax, and the Supreme Court has ruled that it is an exercise of the taxing power of Congress.

The law labels the assessment a “penalty” (see Section 5000A) and avoids using the term “tax.” But Chief Justice John Roberts, writing for the five justices in the majority, said the penalty can be considered a tax that is within the power of Congress to impose.

His reasons are set out starting on page 33 of the opinion. Among other things, Roberts concluded that the penalty was not intended to be a criminal fine, because those who choose to pay it, rather than honor the mandate to obtain health insurance, would be in full compliance with the law. He also noted that the amount is not prohibitively high:

    Chief Justice John Roberts: [F]or most Americans the amount due will be far less than the price of insurance, and, by statute, it can never be more.

How Much?

The minimum amount — per person — will be $695 once the tax is fully phased in. But it will be less to start. The minimum penalty per person will start at $95 in 2014, the first year that the law will require individuals to obtain coverage. And it will rise to $325 the following year.

Starting in 2017, the minimum tax per person will rise each year with inflation. And for children 18 and under, the minimum per-person tax is half of that for adults.

However, the minimum amount per family is capped at triple the per-person tax, no matter how many individuals are in the taxpayer’s household. So, for example, a couple with one child over 18 (or two children age 18 or under), and no coverage, would pay a minimum of $285 in 2014, $975 in 2015 and $2,085 in 2016. And that would be the minimum no matter how many uninsured dependents a taxpayer has.

The tax would be more for persons with higher taxable incomes. When phased in, it will be 2.5 percent of household income that exceeds the income threshold for filing a tax return. For 2011, those thresholds were $9,500 for a single person under age 65, and $19,000 for a married person filing jointly with a spouse. So, to give a rough calculation, a couple with $100,000 of income might pay a tax of $2,025 if they choose to go without coverage.

But the penalty can never exceed the cost of the national average premiums for the lowest-cost “bronze” plans being offered through the new insurance exchanges called for under the law. We have no way of knowing what that average rate might turn out to be in 2014, but there is reason to think it could be quite high. For example, the total cost of a basic Government Employees Health Association plan currently offered through the Federal Employee Health Benefit program (the model for the state insurance exchanges) totals $9,459 per year for a family plan, and $4,159 for individual coverage.

Who Collects?

The penalty will be collected by the Internal Revenue Service, which is one reason the chief justice cited for considering it to be a tax. In fact, the penalty is spelled out in Title 26 of the U.S. Code — the “Internal Revenue Code” — under Subtitle D — “Miscellaneous Excise Taxes.”

Partial Coverage

A tax is assessed for each month that a person is not covered. It is pro-rated, so that a person who is not covered for only a single month would pay 1/12th of the tax that would be due for the full year.

So, for example, the minimum tax per person for failing to get coverage would be $7.92 for each month of 2014, $28.75 for each month of 2015, and $57.92 for each month of 2016, when fully phased in.

Refusal to Pay

The law prohibits the IRS from seeking to put anybody in jail or seizing their property for simple refusal to pay the tax. The law says specifically that taxpayers “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty” for failure to pay, and also that the IRS cannot file a tax lien (a legal claim against such things as homes, cars, wages and bank accounts) or a “levy” (seizure of property or bank accounts).


The law says that the IRS will collect the tax “in the same manner as an assessable penalty undersubchapter B of chapter 68” of the tax code. That part of the tax code provides for imposing an additional penalty “equal to the total amount of the tax evaded, or not collected.” It also requires written notices to the taxpayer, and provides for court proceedings.

So it may turn out that the IRS will be suing those who fail to pay the tax for double the amount. But so far, the IRS has not spelled out exactly how it will enforce the new penalty with the limited power the law gives it.

Who’s Exempt?

The law makes a number of exemptions for low-income persons and hardship cases.

“Individuals who cannot afford coverage”: If an employer offers coverage that would cost the employee more than 8 percent of his or her household income (for self-only coverage) that individual is exempt from the tax.

“Taxpayers with income below filing threshold”: Also exempt are those who earn too little to be required to file tax returns. For 2011 — as previously mentioned — those thresholds were $9,500 for a single person under age 65, and $19,000 for a married person filing jointly with a spouse, for example. The thresholds go up each year in line with inflation, so those cut-offs will be higher in 2014, when the tax first takes effect.

“Hardships”: The Secretary of Health and Human Services is empowered to exempt others that she or he determines to “have suffered a hardship with respect to the capability to obtain coverage.”

Other exemptions: Also exempt are members of Indian tribes, persons with only brief gaps in coverage, and members of certain religious groups currently exempt from Social Security taxes (whichas we’ve previously reported are chiefly Anabaptist — that is, Mennonite, Amish or Hutterite).

How Many Will Pay?

In his opinion, Chief Justice Roberts cited an estimate from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office that 4 million would pay, and cited that as a further reason to consider the assessment a tax rather than a penalty. “Congress did not think it was creating four million outlaws,” he suggested.

However, since then, CBO has increased its estimate. In an estimate released in March of this year, CBO projected that the tax would yield $6 billion for the government, up from the $4 billion it estimated two years earlier. That’s a 50 percent higher total, and would seem to imply that CBO now expects about 6 million will be paying. But CBO didn’t give a specific figure for the number of persons it now expects to pay.

http://factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-i … acare-tax/

Last edited by HeartofShadows (2012-06-29 07:46:11)


"I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit."

Mark Twain

Offline

#5 2012-06-29 07:46:52

HeartofShadows
What do you know of... Cthulhu?
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 505

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Like I said..
Waiting for the eventual shitstorm and butthurt.


"I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit."

Mark Twain

Offline

#6 2012-06-29 07:54:08

gore
*looses shit internally*
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 6,235

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

So the only way the IRS can legally make you pay this is sue you for twice as much.

Seems legit.


366.gif
my youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmcMLs … CNoiL7eX1g
my deviantart: http://purpledrank666.deviantart.com/

SS official oldfaf.
fuck SS
"A friend with weed is a friend indeed" -Sharpie

"Honestly censorship Is good though it protects women and children" -Absent

"Not everybody think the free market be like it does, but it do." -white economics man

Offline

#7 2012-06-29 10:47:08

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Thing is if you go online and look up Heath insurance quotes, it's already ridiculously expensive. A young healthy female who doesn't smoke and has no kids would have to pay $1400 or twice the 'tax' to be in compliance with this law. That price is going to jump in 18 months when the mandate takes effect. It does nothing to compell heathy young people into the system but instead insures they stay out of it.

Offline

#8 2012-06-29 15:33:36

SaintVicious
Jewing Intensifies
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 7,029

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Before all you kids go fucking rage mode I made obama care simple for you
-State sponsored insurance exchanges which make it easier for individuals and small businesses to compare and purchase insurance plans. This is actually a lot more capitalistic and competitive than our current system
-government assistance for people below or near poverty, so they may purchase healthcare
-it IS possible to get a waiver from the individual mandate
-no more denied coverage for pre-existing conditions
-companies can no longer just "drop" you after a costly medical bill
-Companies are capped on the percentage of profit they take; 85% of what they charge MUST go to health services for their customers. So either better service or cheaper service.
-Children can stay on their parent's plans til the age of 26; this is pretty handy if your a college student.

Last edited by SaintVicious (2012-06-29 15:33:53)

Offline

#9 2012-06-29 16:46:33

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Except college students were already allowed on parental plans until they were 22

Offline

#10 2012-06-29 16:52:18

SaintVicious
Jewing Intensifies
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 7,029

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Yea and now its 26 which is handy

Offline

#11 2012-06-29 17:42:36

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

If your parents allow you on their coverage.

Offline

#12 2012-06-29 18:06:00

SaintVicious
Jewing Intensifies
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 7,029

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Well some parents aren't assholes and generally care for their child. I would do it for mine. Why not if I am making at least 4x what hes making (like I should be) why not?

Offline

#13 2012-06-30 05:16:34

absentinsomniac
Administrator
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 16,780

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

>> Mfw legislators are planning on shit to get finished by 2016.
>> Mfw the world is going to be a lot different by then.
>> Mfw in 4 years technology better be a lot more advanced than it is now.
>> Mfw it will be.
>> Mfw as soon as it gets fully implemented he'll be out of office *assuming he gets reelected* and they'll reverse it
>> MFW MFW MFW MFW
>> Mfw


Fucc

Offline

#14 2012-06-30 12:14:56

Baron
Member
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 855

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

>mfw americlaps still don't have national healthcare


hurr durr i'm a posturr

Offline

#15 2012-06-30 13:55:05

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

MFW two thirds of Americans are either overweight or obsess

MFW roughly one fourth of Americans are regular tobacco users

MFW 8 of  the CDC "Top 10 causes of death" are linked to either of the above

MFW 1 in 5 Americans honestly thinks there is a link between childhood vaccines and Autism

MFW the USDA actively lies to people on nutritional labels by placing sugar in a same category as complex carbs

Tl;dr - mfw people honestly think I should pay more in taxes to take care of their poor life choices.

middle-finger1.jpg

Last edited by Aya (2012-06-30 14:12:14)

Offline

#16 2012-06-30 17:11:27

gore
*looses shit internally*
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 6,235

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

^^ democrats in a nutshell.


366.gif
my youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmcMLs … CNoiL7eX1g
my deviantart: http://purpledrank666.deviantart.com/

SS official oldfaf.
fuck SS
"A friend with weed is a friend indeed" -Sharpie

"Honestly censorship Is good though it protects women and children" -Absent

"Not everybody think the free market be like it does, but it do." -white economics man

Offline

#17 2012-06-30 17:16:01

SaintVicious
Jewing Intensifies
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 7,029

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Aya wrote:

MFW two thirds of Americans are either overweight or obsess

MFW roughly one fourth of Americans are regular tobacco users

MFW 8 of  the CDC "Top 10 causes of death" are linked to either of the above

MFW 1 in 5 Americans honestly thinks there is a link between childhood vaccines and Autism

MFW the USDA actively lies to people on nutritional labels by placing sugar in a same category as complex carbs

Tl;dr - mfw people honestly think I should pay more in taxes to take care of their poor life choices.

middle-finger1.jpg

Except its going to be cheaper for everyone, and if you can't afford it the gubmint will sub it or you can opt out. Besides who do you think pays for it when someone poor goes to the emergency room after shit is already fucked up? with new healthcare it will lead to more prevention and less reaction.

Offline

#18 2012-06-30 17:33:29

HeartofShadows
What do you know of... Cthulhu?
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 505

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Aya wrote:

MFW two thirds of Americans are either overweight or obsess
Tl;dr - mfw people honestly think I should pay more in taxes to take care of their poor life choices.

middle-finger1.jpg

Yeah but your cool with bailing out wallstreet and sending your money for government parties. :D


"I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit."

Mark Twain

Offline

#19 2012-06-30 17:40:07

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

SaintVicious wrote:

Except its going to be cheaper for everyone, and if you can't afford it the gubmint will sub it or you can opt out. Besides who do you think pays for it when someone poor goes to the emergency room after shit is already fucked up? with new healthcare it will lead to more prevention and less reaction.

1. It's not cheaper. See the post where I mention Heath insurance currently cost $1400 a year.

2. Only certain religious groups and native Americans can opt out

3. ER visits are not going to change because there will still be uninsured & illegals using them.

4. With exception to certain screenings, this law does absolutely nothing to promote preventative care because no one is required to actually go to the screening or change their unhealthy life style as a condition of receiving health care.

Offline

#20 2012-06-30 17:43:53

TheWake
Illuminatus Sacerdos
From: Yankee-Occupied South
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 8,272

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

SaintVicious wrote:

-no more denied coverage for pre-existing conditions

This right here is one of the big reasons why the law will screw up the health insurance market. Sure, it may make me look like a big giant asshole to state the obvious, but there's a reason why people with preexisting conditions can't get health insurance: It's too risky to insure them. Companies can't make money taking undue risk, especially in an industry that is supposed to be all about risk assessment.


The Grasshopper Lies Heavy

WsEkePS.png

Offline

#21 2012-06-30 17:56:22

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Wes wrote:
SaintVicious wrote:

-no more denied coverage for pre-existing conditions

This right here is one of the big reasons why the law will screw up the health insurance market. Sure, it may make me look like a big giant asshole to state the obvious, but there's a reason why people with preexisting conditions can't get health insurance: It's too risky to insure them. Companies can't make money taking undue risk, especially in an industry that is supposed to be all about risk assessment.

Which is why they wanted to force everyone to buy insurance with the individual mandate. The prevailing train of thought was that if you could force young, healthy people into buying insurance then it would ease the burden on insurance companies for having to take care of all these people with pre-existing conditions. But that logic falls apart when you realize it's still cheaper for a healthy person to forgo insurance and take the $700 'tax' then it is to go out and purchase a plan. And when they finally do get sick and need insurance, there's nothing the insurance companies can do to keep them from purchasing it.

tl;dr this law is specifically designed to fuck the insurance companies and health care system in the ass. The idea is to break the system so people get pissed and demand a single payer system. Which also won't work in the US because we're a nation of fat lazy fucks who would rather spend millions of dollars developing obesity medication instead of getting off our asses and spending some time on a treadmill.

Last edited by Aya (2012-06-30 17:57:07)

Offline

#22 2012-06-30 18:40:56

HeartofShadows
What do you know of... Cthulhu?
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 505

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

obamacare1.jpg


"I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit."

Mark Twain

Offline

#23 2012-06-30 19:06:55

Baron
Member
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 855

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

oh no i have to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare in a universal healthcare system how terrible


hurr durr i'm a posturr

Offline

#24 2012-06-30 19:12:09

TheWake
Illuminatus Sacerdos
From: Yankee-Occupied South
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 8,272

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

Aya wrote:
Wes wrote:
SaintVicious wrote:

-no more denied coverage for pre-existing conditions

This right here is one of the big reasons why the law will screw up the health insurance market. Sure, it may make me look like a big giant asshole to state the obvious, but there's a reason why people with preexisting conditions can't get health insurance: It's too risky to insure them. Companies can't make money taking undue risk, especially in an industry that is supposed to be all about risk assessment.

Which is why they wanted to force everyone to buy insurance with the individual mandate. The prevailing train of thought was that if you could force young, healthy people into buying insurance then it would ease the burden on insurance companies for having to take care of all these people with pre-existing conditions. But that logic falls apart when you realize it's still cheaper for a healthy person to forgo insurance and take the $700 'tax' then it is to go out and purchase a plan. And when they finally do get sick and need insurance, there's nothing the insurance companies can do to keep them from purchasing it.

tl;dr this law is specifically designed to fuck the insurance companies and health care system in the ass. The idea is to break the system so people get pissed and demand a single payer system. Which also won't work in the US because we're a nation of fat lazy fucks who would rather spend millions of dollars developing obesity medication instead of getting off our asses and spending some time on a treadmill.

Accepting the premise that government ought to do something and the other premise that there are holes in who the free market would take care of, what we need to do is deregulate the heal insurance industry to a point where insurance can be bought nationally and there is adequate competition. Also make it where insurance isn't only accessible at a cheap rate through employers. Also throw health savings accounts in for good measure. Then, I would have a government run insurance company for people with preexisting conditions that would cover them and with government subsidies.

For people that don't have preexisting conditions but don't buy insurance, have a government fund to pay for catastrophic incidents like cancer or something but otherwise leave them alone.


The Grasshopper Lies Heavy

WsEkePS.png

Offline

#25 2012-06-30 20:19:34

Aya
Sweet Tits
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 1,840

Re: "OBAMACARE" SURVIVES!

BaronVonStrangle wrote:

oh no i have to pay for EVERYONE's healthcare in a universal healthcare system how terrible

Hey you come live in a country where healthy people are a minoritythen tell me how great it is to pay for everyone else's health care.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB