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#1 2016-08-26 00:19:43

Fish20
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From: crabgrass
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 4,609
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Hilard Clintrump

We have two leading candidates who are so close on a political spectrum that it's basically a battle between which can embarrass themselves the least. That is why I think Trump will lose, he is so over the top in a way, and it makes Hillary look sane in comparison. Even though she would look like a sociopath if put next to anyone else. Thr gap between their political views are very small. Despite Trump's over the top reactionist guise, his views for Making America Great Again are closer to George W. Bush's political standing than any of the presidents of the last 50 years. And Hillary is basically a more authoritarian Obama, or a slightly more liberal George W. Bush. So why the fuck are people saying Hillary is a liberal vs Trump's conservative? Hillary is more of a conservative than Trump is really. A liberal conservative I guess. Trump wants to move the US into a more authoritarian, borderline facist direction. But the difference between the two is very minor when you look at their political views.


There are no clear way to learn it unlike html and css who are actually funny to learn and explore.

Quotes:

sloth wrote:

Hold your head down and you won't get hurt. You'll get exploited, abused and spit on, but hey at least you're safe. Fuck that. I have one life to live, and I'll live it my fucking way. Go on. Stand in my way. See what happens. See what happens when a good guy snaps.

sloth wrote:

There are cemetery for living people. They are called "cubicles". And "assembly line". And "McDonalds". And any other full of shit job you can think about. It's where you are dying every day so you can live on a few select days of your life. If you're not to powered out from working.

loon_attic wrote:

everything is shit and people love it because they're hipster masochists or something

absentinsomniac wrote:

she said to eat her out w/ an ice curbe but nah goodnight lol

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#2 2016-08-26 10:09:59

V.R.
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Re: Hilard Clintrump

In a real sense, the effective American political spectrum has been Hamiltonian state-building for a very long time.


"Humanity Is Overrated" - Shrek

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#3 2016-08-26 10:45:54

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Political Compass puts Donald Trump, someone whom in Europe would be considered part of the mainstream far-right, economically to the left of so-called "liberal" and "centre-left" candidate Hillary Clinton.

I genuinely believe that the days of the two-party system are numbered. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein will both break the million-vote threshold this year, and one of them, probably Johnson, could get a vote or two from the Electoral College. An interesting and relevant quote from Ravi Batra:

A political revolution will take place in the United States by the end of this decade...by around 2010. And the revolution could go on for four or five years before it is complete. So, from 2010 to 2016 we could see major changes in US economy and society. It will be a peaceful revolution and it will bring an end to the rule of money in society.


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#4 2016-08-26 14:23:06

V.R.
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Re: Hilard Clintrump

RammsteinFearFactory wrote:

I genuinely believe that the days of the two-party system are numbered.

Duverger's law, nigger.

The two-party system is here to stay, but either the parties or their platforms will undergo changes, as has been the case in U.S. history roughly every half-century.


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#5 2016-08-26 14:30:45

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
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Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

V.R. wrote:
RammsteinFearFactory wrote:

I genuinely believe that the days of the two-party system are numbered.

Duverger's law, nigger.

The two-party system is here to stay, but either the parties or their platforms will undergo changes, as has been the case in U.S. history roughly every half-century.

I must clarify that by "numbered" I don't believe that the hegemony will be entirely smashed. European nations still only have two parties of senior government for the most part, and while around four parties have served the Official Opposition in Canada since 1993, only two (counting PC and modern Conservatives as the same entity here) have ever formed government.

My prediction is that independents and third-party candidates other than just Bernie Sanders will be able to go somewhere in state elections and Congress. I can picture a handful of Libertarians entering the House of Representatives and maybe a Green or two.


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#6 2016-08-26 15:00:16

Green1
Member
Registered: 2015-10-21
Posts: 713

Re: Hilard Clintrump

I've always found these -ists and -isms not very descriptive.

They are more like the "newspeak" that was in Orwell's 1984. Snarl words to influence folks to feel a certain way.

When the truth is, these people serve the agenda within reason of whatever groups back them.

For Trump, it is the white dude who remembers his father had a good job and a house, but now begs for 15 USD an hour work and deals with shitty landlords. Never mind Trump was an egotistical, brutal landlord that routinely tried to screw tenants and left a trail of unpaid contractors at many of his projects. And, at the ones that he still runs brings over employees from foreign countries to work his resorts. But DAMMIT.. HE'LL SHOW DOSE DAM MEXICANS and NUKE DA FUCK OUT OF THOSE TOWEL HEADS! Trump only serves his own ego and self empowerment.

For Clinton, she has been in bed with many of the people who sit in ivory towers and only care about living a jet setting lifestyle. Big union bosses who collect money yet don't do much for the worker (many unions are some of the strictest places to work), large international holding companies, etc. BUT, SHE'S SANE (er), HAS A VAGINA, AND BLACK PEOPLE LOVE HER! Don't mention her husband passed a crime bill back in the 1990s that gave police VAST powers to take everything from even minor drug users in the black community and strengthened databases to narc to any employers, making ENTIRE GROUPS of folks unemployable. I guarantee Micr$soft or Fakebook do not check their H1Bs for a misdemeanor smoking hashish from 2001 in New Delhi.  Or passed really bad trade deals where yes, you can get a 5 USD shirt or 50 USD DVD player, but many non offshorable jobs pay a pittance. Yeah, welfare, food stamps, etc, but you can only get them if you are a certain criteria. Oh yeah, and fuck you if you are not a minority or whatever or not a rich liberal.

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#7 2016-08-26 22:02:59

TheWake
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From: Yankee-Occupied South
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 8,272

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Hillary Clinton is probably THE SINGLE person most hated  by the American right-wing. With a clusterfuck of a Trump election leading to a Clinton win, the Clinton presidency will turn Clinton into a fixed target for GOP attacks. It'll be like what Obama did for the Republicans, but on steroids. Establishment types will be able to solidify their hold on the party apparatus and incumbent Republicans in Red States will have a powerful appeal ("I will stop the Clinton agenda!") against insurgents within their own party (they'll compare them to crazy guy Trump)  as well as Democrats running against them. A Hillary presidency can't do anything but help the Republican establishment retake control of their party and eventually handily retake Congress if they happen to lose it this election cycle.

The only likely way 3rd parties benefit from this is heightened exposure. Any talk of Johnson/Weld winning a single electoral vote seems unlikely to me. Although, it's definitely more likely than previous years. The Johnson/Weld campaign has actually been focusing on states they have the best chance of pulling electoral college votes in. If the LP can keep Hillary and Trump from both winning the magic number of electoral college votes, they could force a vote in the House of Representatives to decide who the president will be. If this happens the Libertarian Party will have been just a vehicle for LINOs Johnson and Weld to become President and basically become Republicans (let's not forget that both of them are former R governors) in everything but name. Weld especially is a GOP insider. I wouldn't even be surprised if they changed parties after taking office. I guess it's their best bet, but it's definitely a real long shot.

Last edited by TheWake (2016-08-26 22:07:30)


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#8 2016-08-27 01:14:09

Fish20
sea creature
From: crabgrass
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 4,609
Website

Re: Hilard Clintrump

The political parties are out the window in terms of political ideologies. Like Green said, they are just representatives of whoever backs them. But everyone is still fixated on the parties as if they represented the liberals/conservatives or left/right. It's pointless to even say things like "basically become republicans in everything but name". It's like two feuding families. They hate each other because of their name.


There are no clear way to learn it unlike html and css who are actually funny to learn and explore.

Quotes:

sloth wrote:

Hold your head down and you won't get hurt. You'll get exploited, abused and spit on, but hey at least you're safe. Fuck that. I have one life to live, and I'll live it my fucking way. Go on. Stand in my way. See what happens. See what happens when a good guy snaps.

sloth wrote:

There are cemetery for living people. They are called "cubicles". And "assembly line". And "McDonalds". And any other full of shit job you can think about. It's where you are dying every day so you can live on a few select days of your life. If you're not to powered out from working.

loon_attic wrote:

everything is shit and people love it because they're hipster masochists or something

absentinsomniac wrote:

she said to eat her out w/ an ice curbe but nah goodnight lol

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#9 2016-08-27 02:57:54

Green1
Member
Registered: 2015-10-21
Posts: 713

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Third Party?

No. They will not even get one electoral college vote. Not as long as they do not know folks that own broadcast channels and are limited to YouTube or Libertarian/Anarchist sites. Yeah, they will legalize weed, but if you are not a business owner, you are nothing to them. Rent? You are fucked. College? Libertarians wish to end student loans. And, not end it the cool way as in free at least community college.

Plus, they have a lot of "faces" that are laughable. I mean, come on. There ARE conspiracies. Any time some trade group meets or whatever, they want to make money.  This is from your "local" mega apartment complex landlord who lives 5 states away on up to the board of directors of major industries. But, to say they are "out to get you" with FEMA camps, poison in the food, and whatever is just paranoid. That would imply a level of caring on the parts of these people.

What is more likely is eventually is eventually other factions within a party system will coopt and overtake the majority.

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#10 2016-08-27 03:10:17

Green1
Member
Registered: 2015-10-21
Posts: 713

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Green1 wrote:

Third Party?

No. They will not even get one electoral college vote. Not as long as they do not know folks that own broadcast channels and are limited to YouTube or Libertarian/Anarchist sites. Yeah, they will legalize weed, but if you are not a business owner, you are nothing to them. Rent? You are fucked. College? Libertarians wish to end student loans. And, not end it the cool way as in free at least community college.

Plus, they have a lot of "faces" that are laughable. I mean, come on. There ARE conspiracies. Any time some trade group meets or whatever, they want to make money.  This is from your "local" mega apartment complex landlord who lives 5 states away on up to the board of directors of major industries. But, to say they are "out to get you" with FEMA camps, poison in the food, and whatever is just paranoid. That would imply a level of caring on the parts of these people.

ONE FAMOUS LIBERTARIAN DUDE ATE COLLOIDAL FUCKING SILVER BECAUSE HE THOUGHT BIGMED WAS SCREWING HIM!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Jones_(politician)

Now, he looks like a smurf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria

What is more likely is eventually is eventually other factions within a party system will coopt and overtake the majority.

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#11 2016-08-27 06:23:46

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Green1 wrote:

Third Party?

No. They will not even get one electoral college vote. Not as long as they do not know folks that own broadcast channels and are limited to YouTube or Libertarian/Anarchist sites. Yeah, they will legalize weed, but if you are not a business owner, you are nothing to them. Rent? You are fucked. College? Libertarians wish to end student loans. And, not end it the cool way as in free at least community college.

Plus, they have a lot of "faces" that are laughable. I mean, come on. There ARE conspiracies. Any time some trade group meets or whatever, they want to make money.  This is from your "local" mega apartment complex landlord who lives 5 states away on up to the board of directors of major industries. But, to say they are "out to get you" with FEMA camps, poison in the food, and whatever is just paranoid. That would imply a level of caring on the parts of these people.

What is more likely is eventually is eventually other factions within a party system will coopt and overtake the majority.

Rock 'n' Roll McDonald's

Americans' response to the Libertarian Party in the USA is almost funny. Libertarianism as an ideology is dead in Europe and most likely always will be. The idea that they are a "centrist" party is laughable to Europeans in itself.


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#12 2016-08-27 08:06:16

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

14064150_1651220491855578_8937451829973386984_n.jpg?oh=756592eb8e5975addad9b3000150a76b&oe=584D97FF


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#13 2016-08-27 09:04:17

V.R.
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Registered: 2013-04-02
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Re: Hilard Clintrump

RammsteinFearFactory wrote:

Libertarianism as an ideology is dead in Europe and most likely always will be.

It's barely been alive except for brief periods of time in the UK and France. But yeah, since the 1880s with the rise of Green, Hobhouse and the New Liberalism it's been mostly dead.


"Humanity Is Overrated" - Shrek

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#14 2016-08-27 09:50:47

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

V.R. wrote:
RammsteinFearFactory wrote:

Libertarianism as an ideology is dead in Europe and most likely always will be.

It's barely been alive except for brief periods of time in the UK and France. But yeah, since the 1880s with the rise of Green, Hobhouse and the New Liberalism it's been mostly dead.

Classical liberalism normally represents the relative right of liberal politics in Europe. But since the 1910's, social liberalism has been the main variant. Presumably as an attempt to counter the rise of social democracy.


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#15 2016-08-27 20:17:53

Green1
Member
Registered: 2015-10-21
Posts: 713

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Modern Libertarianism resembles little of the thinkers of the 1880s.

And, even now, the modern Libertarians have factions.

- Anne Randroids who want a society where  the "talents" are separated from the "leeches".
- Business owners who read a lot of Hieinien and are heavy into poly and other alternative lifestyles but are brutal to the "help" at their businesses.
- Isolated folks who do not read or reseearch at all but listen to a lot of Coast to Coast AM, Alex Jones, and YouTube sites who believe anything just because it is Libertarian/ Right Wing Anarchist.

Last edited by Green1 (2016-08-27 20:22:28)

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#16 2016-08-28 05:06:42

loon_attic
Banned
Registered: 2012-06-08
Posts: 10,288

Re: Hilard Clintrump

fuck


sloth wrote:

Comfy does not provide challenge, challenge provides success, success provides happiness. Our world is not comfy, although we tried to make it so. Slaves of our own inventions, yada, yada. Not only on a technological level, also on a social and political level. Nothing more but apes. Apes with psychosomatic disorders.

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#17 2016-08-28 05:07:25

loon_attic
Banned
Registered: 2012-06-08
Posts: 10,288

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Green1 wrote:

Modern Libertarianism resembles little of the thinkers of the 1880s.

And, even now, the modern Libertarians have factions.

- Anne Randroids who want a society where  the "talents" are separated from the "leeches".
- Business owners who read a lot of Hieinien and are heavy into poly and other alternative lifestyles but are brutal to the "help" at their businesses.
- Isolated folks who do not read or reseearch at all but listen to a lot of Coast to Coast AM, Alex Jones, and YouTube sites who believe anything just because it is Libertarian/ Right Wing Anarchist.

what about centrist minarchists? I guess there aren't a lot or some shit idk


sloth wrote:

Comfy does not provide challenge, challenge provides success, success provides happiness. Our world is not comfy, although we tried to make it so. Slaves of our own inventions, yada, yada. Not only on a technological level, also on a social and political level. Nothing more but apes. Apes with psychosomatic disorders.

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#18 2016-08-28 05:07:48

TheWake
Illuminatus Sacerdos
From: Yankee-Occupied South
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 8,272

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Green1 wrote:

Modern Libertarianism resembles little of the thinkers of the 1880s.

And, even now, the modern Libertarians have factions.

- Anne Randroids who want a society where  the "talents" are separated from the "leeches".
- Business owners who read a lot of Hieinien and are heavy into poly and other alternative lifestyles but are brutal to the "help" at their businesses.
- Isolated folks who do not read or reseearch at all but listen to a lot of Coast to Coast AM, Alex Jones, and YouTube sites who believe anything just because it is Libertarian/ Right Wing Anarchist.

Haha that's a bit of a mischaracterization.

I'd hardly call Objectivists libertarian. They Ayn Rand Institute has supported the warfare state for years. They're basically atheist neocons. Now, Rand has has a big influence on libertarianism, but few people associated with libertarianism anymore are straight up Objectivists. The Objectivists are largely cancer.

There's people from multiple walks of life at my local Libertarian Party meetings. It's rather interesting. It is a bit male skewed and definitely white as fuck, but it's not like you characterize. Although there's definitely a bit of it.

And come on Heinlein is great. Better writer and Rand was.


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#19 2016-08-28 05:36:34

Fish20
sea creature
From: crabgrass
Registered: 2012-06-11
Posts: 4,609
Website

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Fuck parties. They serve not much purpose other than being factions that divide the country and impose the controllers' pawns onto the citizens of the country. There is a reason why Washington didn't like them. Yet here we are doing exactly what he said would happen. Human stupidity. This election is yhe most cynical thing I can think of. Bye humans...


There are no clear way to learn it unlike html and css who are actually funny to learn and explore.

Quotes:

sloth wrote:

Hold your head down and you won't get hurt. You'll get exploited, abused and spit on, but hey at least you're safe. Fuck that. I have one life to live, and I'll live it my fucking way. Go on. Stand in my way. See what happens. See what happens when a good guy snaps.

sloth wrote:

There are cemetery for living people. They are called "cubicles". And "assembly line". And "McDonalds". And any other full of shit job you can think about. It's where you are dying every day so you can live on a few select days of your life. If you're not to powered out from working.

loon_attic wrote:

everything is shit and people love it because they're hipster masochists or something

absentinsomniac wrote:

she said to eat her out w/ an ice curbe but nah goodnight lol

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#20 2016-08-28 05:55:44

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

loon_attic wrote:
Green1 wrote:

Modern Libertarianism resembles little of the thinkers of the 1880s.

And, even now, the modern Libertarians have factions.

- Anne Randroids who want a society where  the "talents" are separated from the "leeches".
- Business owners who read a lot of Hieinien and are heavy into poly and other alternative lifestyles but are brutal to the "help" at their businesses.
- Isolated folks who do not read or reseearch at all but listen to a lot of Coast to Coast AM, Alex Jones, and YouTube sites who believe anything just because it is Libertarian/ Right Wing Anarchist.

what about centrist minarchists? I guess there aren't a lot or some shit idk

The top two basically are minarchist. Minarchists are no more "centrist" than generic American libertarians i.e. they're not


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#21 2016-08-28 07:03:10

Green1
Member
Registered: 2015-10-21
Posts: 713

Re: Hilard Clintrump

TheWake wrote:
Green1 wrote:

Modern Libertarianism resembles little of the thinkers of the 1880s.

And, even now, the modern Libertarians have factions.

- Anne Randroids who want a society where  the "talents" are separated from the "leeches".
- Business owners who read a lot of Hieinien and are heavy into poly and other alternative lifestyles but are brutal to the "help" at their businesses.
- Isolated folks who do not read or reseearch at all but listen to a lot of Coast to Coast AM, Alex Jones, and YouTube sites who believe anything just because it is Libertarian/ Right Wing Anarchist.

Haha that's a bit of a mischaracterization.

I'd hardly call Objectivists libertarian. They Ayn Rand Institute has supported the warfare state for years. They're basically atheist neocons. Now, Rand has has a big influence on libertarianism, but few people associated with libertarianism anymore are straight up Objectivists. The Objectivists are largely cancer.

There's people from multiple walks of life at my local Libertarian Party meetings. It's rather interesting. It is a bit male skewed and definitely white as fuck, but it's not like you characterize. Although there's definitely a bit of it.

And come on Heinlein is great. Better writer and Rand was.

Maybe...

But that is a lot of outsider's perceptions. Something, rightfully or wrongly, must overcome if they ever want to be taken seriously.. Good point though about the "white man's club" thing. Without broader appeal outside of fringe groups, the Libertarians are going to be considered the colloidal silver slurping, conspiracy nut businessmen some are.

(and you are right, Heinlien is much better than Rand)

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#22 2016-08-28 07:34:03

V.R.
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Registered: 2013-04-02
Posts: 5,352

Re: Hilard Clintrump

"All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies who are anarchists instead of leftist collectivists; but anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet libertarians combine capitalism and anarchism. That’s worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. Anarchists are the scum of the intellectual world of the Left, which has given them up. So the Right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the libertarian movement."

-- Ayn Rand


"Humanity Is Overrated" - Shrek

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#23 2016-08-28 14:58:21

Alistoriv
Sanity Not Included
Registered: 2013-04-29
Posts: 890

Re: Hilard Clintrump

time for a revolutionary overthrow my dudes ;)))

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#24 2016-08-28 15:18:19

Ario
Deviant
Registered: 2014-01-04
Posts: 2,017

Re: Hilard Clintrump

I once planned on reading The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged, but I didn't feel like spending copious amounts of time reading 700 pages, just so I can say I've read a book that is presently considered outdated and shite.


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I literally could not hate a group of people more than I hate the people who use darknedgy.net

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#25 2016-08-28 17:45:31

RammsteinFearFactory
A new era has begun.
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 2,558

Re: Hilard Clintrump

Alistoriv wrote:

time for a revolutionary overthrow my dudes ;)))


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